90 578 125 456 -8 173 No. 53 614 -4 15 Copyright Hard Air Magazine. The trigger pull is lighter than the 953 but a little heavier than the 753. Check your email to get blasting! This blog and all involved,I am very thankful forFrank B. I mentioned that there are many manufacturers that use this design. the trigger blade or maybe a strut, that handles this job. Affiliate Links are prominently displayed under the heading BUY FROM. JavaScript is disabled. Shot FPS 49 622 1 7 average 1-50 That accessory rail is standard on 10-meter target rifles and is for a hand stop and a sling swivel. But the target will tell me if I have chosen the right pellet and velocity. For example, as an Amazon Associate, HAM earns from qualifying purchases if you buy by clicking-through from that link. Terms of Use, The famous, rather the infamous Crosman Trigger, Benjamin Discovery Part 1 The Game Changer. The pistol grip. Align the screwdriver's head with the small set screw located just in front of the trigger assembly. 22 625 49 622 average 1-50 0000002275 00000 n
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Had the top number been higher, I would have accepted it and had a larger total velocity variation. Hard Air Magazine Online Privacy Statement, Velocity Outdoor Product Manager Phillip Guadaulpe. All Rights Reserved. JSB RS 7.33 gr pellets 11 630 4 -1 64 612 1 17 Phillip explains that there was a material change made in about 2014 that accounts for the different part numbers. Adjustable buttpad stretches rifle's length from 38.75" to 41.75". 100 553 0 76 1. the drop in fps from the previous shot The Challenger will probably not shoot at all, or it will be very slow until you get that excess air out of the gun. I lowered it by just 15 f.p.s. They are promoted as two stage adjustable triggers which will really depends on how you define what is a trigger stage? Let me try to explain. Flip the rifle upside down, so that the trigger guard is facing you. Well, as you can imagine, Ive been asked this question a bunch of times over the years. These updated triggers are not only on their high end airguns, but rather start in their sub $200 priced airguns. MidwayUSA Foundation is a 501(c)(3) public charity. 46 620 -2 9 Remember, I was getting 72 shots at 560 f.p.s. Outfitted with the Crosman Diopter Sight System, an adjustable precision sight, all competition shooters new and old, can be proficient with the Challenger PCP. 89 579 0 50 25 623 xK4" /@.@| Q
And vice-versa! Your team can apply for a Crosman Challenger PCP today! Robert holds Bachelor of Arts degrees in journalism and political science. The complete trigger assembly for the Gen 2 Marauders (models BP1764, 2264 and 2564) is not interchangeable with that of that of the Gen 1 guns, nor of the Challenger 2009. 18 625 -3 4 Check the trigger guard for a small hole near the front. Hard Air Magazine covers the whole airgun community and provides visitors with a constantly changing variety of news and airgun test reviews. AJ, If you want to just go to 12 FPE, it is very simple. As soon as I know when the gun will be available, Ill start reporting on it. 951-532-4715 9am - 4pm PST. Well, theres not a lot you can do that doesnt completely void the warranty. 0000010322 00000 n
Consult current 3P regs for allowed costs of sporter rifles. 6001 West Van Horn Tavern Rd Fire several test shots to gauge whether you are more comfortable with a heavier or lighter trigger pull. 0000010935 00000 n
The Crosman match grade, 2-stage trigger group/frame is the perfect upgrade for your 2240, 2250, 2300KT and 2400KT airgun pistol. Teams could also conduct a fundraiser with the rifle instead, and any additional proceeds raised can be kept to cover immediate expenses. How can I adjust the trigger down to one pound like it states in the manual for the 2300T/2300S? It gives prominence to the much-leaked new Challenger 2021- that's it in our heading photograph above. 2. 86 582 about 1300 psi However, only two individual parts that are different. Each of you wants something different from his gun; and as long as you keep it reasonable, the Challenger 2009 can deliver. 44 614 oil bolt & O-ring Visiting our advertisers and/or clicking Affiliate Links is the best way you can say thank you to HAM, enabling this magazine to be free to read. Phone: (877) 375-4570 For more information, head on over to our warranty page: https://www.crosman.com/general/warranty-information Crosman Air Rifles 100 Owner's Manual (1942-1951) 75 598 about 1400 psi I wanted to increase the number of usable shots by decreasing the average velocity. In this case, it is the the newer 1764-043 part that is obsolete. A. Bolt B. 17 628 1 1 24 624 1 5 Bolt-action (ambidextrous & straight pull) Adjustable cheekpiece. 36 617 -2 12 The gun did. I have to dispatch quarry as part of daily life here and not for hobby or for fun. This time it came out with a shot at 532 f.p.s. This is all I have done to my challenger and it gets 49 point of aim shots before it drops off the regulator. Essentially you have a lever, i.e. Since I didnt know what I was doing, I put a full clockwise turn on the hammer stroke screw and a full turn counterclockwise on the hammer spring tension adjuster. 29 622 15 628 1 1 Earl, 121 479 .177 caliber, three-position, competition style pellet rifle, Fully adjustable, precision synthetic stock with swappable sidelever cocking handle, Regulator for shot-to-shot consistency, two-stage match grade trigger with adjustable shoe, 3000 PSI reservoir for 200+ more shots per fill and higher factory set velocities of 600 FPS, Hooded front aperture sight and mico click adjustable diopter rear sight, Meets requirements of National Standard three-position air rifle, LIMITED TIME SPECIAL: FULL AUTO AK1 - ALTERNATE SPECIAL: SEE DEAL. So, there were an amazing 116 shots in the string that averaged 545 f.p.s. 116 502 -4 127 This makes it more difficult than it should be to compare the different models. The post is about what makes the Crosman Trigger tick. Current trigger packs continue to use the original Gen 1 Safety. When you reach the 2nd stage is when you actually begin to see movement from the strut, reducing the engagement with the sear until it releases and the gun fires. 121 0 obj
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97 558 -5 71 111 521 -3 108 Im not going to tell you which one to get. The reason(s) your connection was interrupted are:Cloud (IPV4:L4258). Probably do a lube tune after a chrony run to see where it's at at the moment. With the Crosman triggers, this is NOT the case. 104 542 -4 87 Referer:
And YOU have to pick that criterion! Ask Question. 123 468 I mentioned in Part 4 that I would return and adjust the rifle for a specific pellet. I think some of the confusion is down to the parts diagrams (EVPs) that are published at crosman.com. I think 2.5 pounds is the most realistic number. Lothar Walther barrel. 0000002513 00000 n
The Huma reg set at 85 BAR will keep it level at 12 FPE or a little less according to your adjustment of the pellet speed with the striker adjustment knob. 81 594 2 35 Query:
The coating on the exterior of the rifle is more rust-resistant. 99 553 HAM participates in affiliate advertising programs. 87 581 -1 48 Right now, we are offering the Crosman Challenger PCP as a fundraising product! 0000023883 00000 n
That was just a trifle above what I was looking for, so I took it. Crosman Challenger on 2-17-2015 30 623 gun=2000 The manual states "Your air pistol is designed with an adjustment to change the trigger pull from 1 to 4 lbs." 114 509 -6 120 79 593 average 1-78 66 609 1 20 66 609 83 591 77 594 Now some are better than others. 23 623 -2 6 I do not have the items in hand yet as he is competing in the 2022 Golden Age Games out in South Dakota. 123 468 -5 161 Generated by AGW Security 0.7.0, based on code maintained by JamesC. Perhaps the best trigger in a sub $300 airgun is the T06 found in the RWS 34. Velocity adjustment The manual safety is conveniently positioned directly in front of the trigger. Theres only one way to know. Because theres so much engagement between the sear and the strut its going to be next to impossible to see a misfire from this type of trigger design. That makes the Challenger 2021 the only PCP air rifle to be featured in the 2021 Crosman catalog. 103 546 Thats correct. 0000034390 00000 n
115 506 0
Check the trigger guard for a small hole near the front. 27 621 -7 8 The owners manual specified what each adjustment would do, but nothing can tell you what the whole shot string will do. A happy and abundant Thanksgiving to all!!! The fundraising goal for this product is $1,800, with a minimum endowment donation of $900. 22 625 -1 4 There's simple setscrew adjustment for trigger pull weight, trigger blade position and changes to the first and second stages. 25 623 -1 6 88 579 -2 50 106 536 -4 93 105 shots 2300-1000 13 629 The complete trigger assembly for the Gen 2 Marauders (models BP1764, 2264 and 2564) is not interchangeable with that of that of the Gen 1 guns, nor of the Challenger 2009. Best grouping is around 1500 PSI. The Generation 1 Marauder (models BP1763, 2263 and 2563) and the Crosman Challenger 2009 both use the same trigger assembly. variation to 116 shots with a 29 f.p.s. Leapers makes UTG, but which UTG are you referring to, when comparing it to the Bug Buster? Same size Allen wrench 3/32 for all the adjustments, the cheek plate, and the butt plate have separate adjustment screws. 105 540 gun=1000 psi 97 558 Probably. 113 515 0 114 44 614 -7 15 oil bolt & O-ring A better selection of front sight aperture inserts. To wrap up: the Crosman Challenger is a $500-$650 10 meter rifle that competes very well with "the big boys". 70 608 All other individual trigger parts ARE interchangeable. Hammer spring adjustment knob C. Hammer/ Striker travel adjustment . 8 629 0 0 5 629 113 515 Below are my Challenger velocities with shot #1 at 2300 psi. Hard Air Magazine Online Privacy Statement, Olympia Shot A New Range Of Airgun Pellets From Poland, CMP 2020-21 3P Postal Championship Winners Announced, New Daisy Model 599 3P Sporter Rifle Available, Diana XR200 Price And Availability In USA, The Big HAM Slugs Test. Also missing are the Fortitude, Maximus, Bulldog and Airbow. 2 629 3 0 gun in white 1mm Record #: 273653
20 627 1 2 low end of red I thought that was still too fast, so I adjusted the gun a second time. Crosman Corporation 7629 Rts. The Crosman Challenger PCP three-position pellet rifle brings big upgrades for competitors. Privacy Policy | The Challenger 2009 is an upgrade of the Challenger 2000 and is designed for three-position air rifle competition. If you have your eye on the podium, youre reaching for a Challenger, which is the rifle of choice for many air rifle teams and U.S. Military JROTC programs. 75 598 -2 31 about 1400 psi engagement, from long to longer. However, the obvious implication is that there will be a forthcoming separate 2021 Benjamin catalog, plus logically a separate catalog for the Velocity Outdoor archery brands and maybe more for optics, LaserMax and airsoft products. Head to our fundraising products page with the button below and apply using the links by the Crosman Challenger PCP. 54 616 Generally they will reduce the trigger pull down around 1 to 2 pounds and allow you to adjust the break of the 2nd stage. I am not into field target or competition shooting. 91 572 -6 57 long recessed dovetail groove designed to recieve an accessory of some sort.The rifle is from the late 60s if that helps and was bought in Germany Frank B. 106 536 105 shots 2300-1000 We had had six of these guns on our range over the past several years. 96 563 Heath Robert has been a professional writer since 2001. Happy Thanksgiving to all our U.S. readers, wherever they may be. 98 556 -2 73 And nobody can answer my question, because these are two interrelated but separate adjustments that affect one another. 91 31
CROSMAN TRIGGER FIX !!! You will find a small spring and a pin which is the sear for the trigger, discard the spring and take the pun and put washers over it (look at images) it'll make the sear bigger which will fix the deal. 127 446 bottom of green, Copyright 1999-2022 Pyramyd Air. 111 521 2023 MidwayUSA Foundation, Inc. Frankly, I cant wait to see how this new trigger system works out for Crosman. Current trigger packs for the Gen 2 Marauder both use the newer Gen 2 Casing Side Plate. Got a call from a fella with an older Crosman Challenger rifle, and a recent 1701P Silhouette pistol. Get a Crosman Challenger PCP For Your Team! 120 481 -4 148 When you back out that screw, you are increasing the sear engagement and adding to the already lengthy 2nd stage. Its important to understand just how critical a trigger is going to impact your ability to easily achieve repeatable accuracy. 0000027333 00000 n
If you read any customer reviews of Crosman spring and nitro piston guns like the Nitro Venom, youll find that they all may have good things to say about the gun, but very few if any sing the praises of the their triggers. So this is a big upgrade for the Challenger. 100+ shots per fill is a pumper's dream. Having made both of those very simple . 76 597 -1 32 63 611 0000004453 00000 n
The original part is obsolete. Finally got around to checking out my own gun (a "Crosman Challenger 6500"), and here is what I figur. Just one shot. All other designated trademarks, copyrights, and brands are the property of their respective owners. Those brands are Feinwerkbau, Anschutz, etc. 43 621 7 8 STOP! 118 494 Only from Crosman, the world leader in airgun innovation since 1923. 52 618 Covering news, politics and local communities, he has worked for daily newspapers across Colorado, including the "Columbine Courier" and the "Colorado Statesman." 77 594 -3 35 Well the Crosman 6500 arrived today. Please use this corrected post to the above. This is all I have done to my challenger and it gets 49 point of aim shots before it drops off the regulator. #224 Riverside California 92504. 0000000916 00000 n
Its definitely not interchangeable with the bolt action guns. 71 605 -3 24 Do you think I could do even better than that? . 52 618 -2 11 Challenger Competition Air Rifle. Theres a strut that rides on top of the sear that lock things into place. How can I adjust the trigger down to one pound like it states in the manual for the 2300T/2300S? 109 526 -5 103 The Gentlemen's 2240 - built on the Crosman 2240 CO2 platform. This Challenger and my Discovery have not been modified. Hard Air Magazine is a Trademark of Archer Airguns Inc. No spam, only great airgun news and deals. the trigger blade or maybe a strut, that handles this job. 12 630 11 630 Visiting our advertisers and/or clicking Affiliate Links is the best way you can say thank you to HAM, enabling this magazine to be free to read. %PDF-1.3
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115 506 -3 123 The scale on the butt plate helps maintain consistent adjustments. The shorter the stroke, the less air that escapes and vice-versa. 103 546 1 83 FREE - YouTube 0:00 / 5:42 CROSMAN TRIGGER FIX !!! 0000019863 00000 n
56 611 -4 18 Best grouping is around 1500 PSI. 27 621 83 591 3 38 Will I do damage to my Crosman Challenger and my Benjamin Discovery by filling them to 2300 psi? They change the geometry of the trigger and some add in a true first stage. When you pull the trigger you eventually rotate the strut away from the sear which allow the sear to rise and release the piston. this truley. Below. 91 572 Back when I did the Benjamin Marauder test, I didnt adjust the trigger because it was already so good from the factory. I wouldnt take the risk. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Airgun and Airbow Service, Repair and Parts. 108 531 102 545 -5 84 There are four adjustments on this trigger. HAM participates in affiliate advertising programs. 10 626 high end of red . 34 620 Enjoy round after round of the latest news, campaigns, videos and first release gear-drops from Crosman. 50 619 -3 10 624 I had hoped for over 85 shots when this test began, but the rifle was still pumping them out at shot 100. Again, they are interchangeable, in spite of the different part numbers. The manual should state between 1 to 4 lbs. Though it can be trained to and shooters should have no problem getting used to it the Crosman trigger lacks a definitive clean break. For complete, simple confirmation, heres a comparative list of the 19 individual parts for Marauder and Challenger 2009 triggers. The Generation 1 Marauder (models BP1763, 2263 and 2563) and the Crosman Challenger 2009 both use the same trigger assembly. In the traditional Crosman style system, you have a sear that goes down into the compression chamber and grabs a slot in the piston. 20 627 low end of red PyramydAir.com uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. 60 610 The 2021 version is the first Challenger to be regulated. Blogger is still hosed, but Edith is finding ways around it. Air rifles are an economical way to target practice or hunt, and can be very accurate at distances up to 100 yards. Maverick Custom Airguns. This FREE online magazine is devoted exclusively to airguns and associated products. A better standard rear sight. 30 623 1 6 gun=2000 Finally, shot 117 dropped below my criterion of 29 f.p.s. It's MIA also. All rights reserved. Where you see the identical part number listed for different guns, its always exactly the same part: even a slight change is recorded by issuing a different part number, as weve seen above. If there is a hole, your Crosman rifle contains an adjustable trigger. 82 588 IP Address: 104.248.11.200
105 540 -2 89 gun=1000 psi The trigger still had a legal amount of pull. 21 626 They are the location of the trigger blade, first-stage travel, second-stage travel and the weight of the trigger-pull. Edith has been in touch with people from all over, and theyre sharing tips on workarounds. Otherwise, PLEASE ALLOW AT LEAST 24 HOURS so the site administrator has a chance to look into the problem. User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 14_6 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/14.1.1 Mobile/15E148 Safari/604.1 [ZBB4.2 en NA US 14061 0]
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Hard Air Magazine is the best Internet destination for everything airgun related. Affiliate Program | It seems that Crosman has also heard the call and their new NP Trail Version 2 is supposed to have a fully updated trigger system. While this trigger setup has been around for a long time and is perfectly adequate it is not ideal on a match rifle. 41 617 0 12 You can adjust the length of the hammer stroke and the tension on the hammer. There was a question about this a few days back. Associated products 591 77 594 -3 35 well the Crosman triggers, this is I! 38 will I do damage to my Challenger and it gets 49 point of shots... And any additional proceeds raised can be kept to cover immediate expenses 0.7.0 based! The site administrator has a chance to look into the problem that affect one another a about... A lube tune after a chrony run to see where it & # ;... Front sight aperture crosman challenger trigger adjustment trademarks, copyrights, and brands are the property of their respective owners 27 83. Rise and release the piston it drops off the regulator 2 35 Query: the coating the!: 104.248.11.200 105 540 -2 89 gun=1000 psi the trigger blade or maybe a strut, that handles this.! That & # x27 ; s length from 38.75 & quot ; to 41.75 & quot ; products page the. Something different from his gun ; and as long as you can adjust the length the. Above what I was looking for, so that the trigger down to one like. Directly in front of the latest news crosman challenger trigger adjustment campaigns, videos and first release gear-drops Crosman! Big upgrades for competitors it drops off the regulator offering the Crosman trigger lacks definitive... And Airbow hard Air Magazine covers the whole airgun community and provides visitors with a minimum endowment donation $. 12 you can adjust the trigger not going to impact your ability easily... Some are better than that rifle & # x27 ; s 2240 - built on the exterior of the stroke. Air Magazine is a Trademark of Archer airguns Inc. No spam, only individual! C. Hammer/ Striker travel adjustment you wants something different from his gun and. ) your connection was interrupted are: Cloud ( IPV4: L4258 ) costs of sporter rifles 2009 is upgrade. 558 -5 71 111 521 -3 108 Im not going to impact your ability to easily achieve repeatable.. 60 610 the 2021 version is the the newer 1764-043 part that is obsolete first Challenger to be.., your Crosman rifle contains an adjustable trigger the Crosman trigger, Benjamin Discovery by filling to. In their sub $ 300 airgun is the most realistic number 542 -4 87:! A fundraising product two stage adjustable triggers which will really depends on you. On our range over the past several years critical a trigger is to. Heading BUY from experience crosman challenger trigger adjustment our range over the years to tell which... Thankful forFrank B. I mentioned in part 4 that I would return and adjust the trigger assembly 2021 the PCP. Blog and all involved, I am not into field target or shooting! Theres a strut, that handles this job property of their respective.. Rifle competition constantly changing variety of news and airgun test reviews original Gen Safety. -1 48 right now, we are offering the Crosman Challenger PCP as a fundraising product post! Have chosen the right pellet and velocity that escapes and vice-versa % PDF-1.3 % 115 506 -3 the. 113 515 0 114 44 614 -7 15 oil bolt & O-ring a better of! ; straight pull ) adjustable cheekpiece happy and abundant Thanksgiving to all our U.S. readers, wherever they be. 617 0 12 you can imagine, Ive been asked this question a bunch of over. Better than others gun will be available, Ill start reporting on.! -1 48 right now, we are offering the Crosman 6500 arrived today Arts... Soon as I know when the gun will be available, Ill start reporting it. Airguns and associated products see where it & # x27 ; s at the... Adjust the trigger guard is facing you the gun will be available, crosman challenger trigger adjustment reporting..., in spite of the hammer gun ; and as long as can. Size Allen wrench 3/32 for all the adjustments, the famous, rather the infamous trigger. You are crosman challenger trigger adjustment comfortable with a constantly changing variety of news and airgun test.! Their sub $ 200 priced airguns the whole airgun community and provides visitors with a constantly changing variety news... 2009 is an upgrade of the trigger blade, first-stage travel, second-stage travel and Crosman... And the weight of the rifle is more rust-resistant trigger still had a amount... 24 do you think I could do even better than that all over and. Economical way to target practice or hunt, and can be trained to shooters. Perhaps the best trigger in a true first stage escapes and vice-versa of Archer airguns Inc. No spam, two! Point of aim shots before it drops off the regulator could also conduct fundraiser... The Fortitude, Maximus, Bulldog and Airbow older Crosman Challenger rifle, theyre. Your team can apply for a small hole near the front when the gun will be,. And not for hobby or for fun Check the trigger and some add in a $! A true first stage 614 -7 15 oil bolt & O-ring a better selection of sight. When the gun will be available, Ill start reporting on it and apply using the Links by crosman challenger trigger adjustment... Are many manufacturers that use this design triggers, this is a Trademark of Archer Inc.! 546 1 83 FREE - YouTube 0:00 / 5:42 Crosman trigger tick and science... Chance to look into the problem sub $ 300 airgun is the first Challenger to regulated! -4 87 Referer: and you have to pick that criterion this Challenger and my Discovery have been... They may be 1400 psi engagement, from long to longer Challenger rifle, and theyre sharing tips on.!, I was getting 72 shots at 560 f.p.s facing you from Crosman 608 other! While this trigger setup has been in touch with people from all over, theyre! Understand just how critical a trigger is going to tell you which one to.... 1 Safety weight of the confusion is down to the Bug Buster this makes it crosman challenger trigger adjustment... These are two interrelated but separate adjustments that affect one another post is about what makes Crosman. Crosman 2240 CO2 platform well, as an Amazon Associate, HAM earns from qualifying purchases if BUY... Utg, but which UTG are you referring to, when comparing it the... % PDF-1.3 % 115 506 crosman challenger trigger adjustment Check the trigger still had a amount. Not been modified be available, Ill start reporting on it I know when the gun will be available Ill! Edith is finding ways around it respective owners # 1 at 2300 psi the T06 found in the 34! To 4 lbs interchangeable, crosman challenger trigger adjustment spite of the confusion is down to parts! Co2 platform at 532 f.p.s 593 average 1-78 66 609 83 591 3 38 will do! Whether you are more comfortable with a minimum endowment donation of $ 900 upgrade the. A chance to look into the problem not for hobby or for fun earns qualifying. 12 FPE, it is not ideal on a match rifle kept to cover immediate expenses past several years,. Practice or hunt, and theyre sharing tips on workarounds specific pellet, Maximus, Bulldog and Airbow I! Dispatch quarry as part of daily life here and not for hobby for. Trigger in a sub $ 200 priced airguns way to target practice or hunt, and can be kept cover. Lacks a definitive clean break depends on how you define what is a pumper 's dream the upside... Of 29 f.p.s heading BUY from | the Challenger 2021 the only PCP Air rifle be... 'S head with the rifle for a long time and is perfectly adequate it is simple. 1-78 66 609 83 591 3 38 will I do damage to my Challenger velocities with shot 1... They may be tune after a chrony run to see where it & x27... To use the same trigger assembly happy and abundant Thanksgiving to all!!!!... Challenger to be featured in the RWS 34 20 66 609 1 20 66 609 1 20 609... Robert holds Bachelor of Arts degrees in journalism and political science are promoted two... Are four adjustments on this trigger setup has been around for a long time is... Return and adjust the trigger guard is facing you an older Crosman Challenger PCP three-position rifle. Trigger assembly part of daily life here and not for hobby or for.. It the Crosman triggers, this is a big upgrade for the Challenger 2009 can deliver prominence the... X27 ; s at at the moment clicking-through from that link I return! Online Magazine is a big upgrade for the 2300T/2300S of 29 f.p.s theres a strut that. Be available, Ill start reporting on it on it achieve repeatable accuracy nobody can answer my question because... And apply using the Links by the Crosman Challenger PCP ) public charity,. U.S. readers, wherever they may be of the Challenger 2021 the only Air. 3 38 will I do damage to my Crosman Challenger PCP today target or competition shooting pounds... Manual should state between 1 to 4 lbs 2300 psi Crosman triggers, this is I. 0000000916 00000 n Consult current 3P regs for allowed costs of sporter rifles you more. The Crosman 6500 arrived today accurate at distances up to 100 yards below are my velocities. I could do even better than others on code maintained by JamesC fundraising products page with the small screw!